How Zach Johnson Funnel Stacks For A Higher LTV

By charles kirkland | Adwords

Oct 26

I was able to get Zach Johnson to explain how he is able to generate $100 in revenue per email address from his funnel with the Funnel Stacking Method.  This podcast is packed with advanced and high level strategies that can level the playing field if you apply them.

 

Total Time [32:51] Charles Kirkland: Hey. This is Charles. I hope everybody’s having a great day or even depending on where you’re at. And if you’re not, after this interview, if you’re blood’s not flowing; if you don’t have a million ideas going on, get your pulse checked. Most likely, you’ve turned into a zombie and you’re not aware of it yet.

With that said, let me introduce Zach Johnson. He is a legend in the world of traffic. So, with that said, traffic and conversion, Zach, how’s it going .

Zach Johnson: It’s good, man. Thanks for having me on here. I appreciate it.

Charles: Sweet. So before we jump n this, tell me a little bit about your background. You know, how did you get to be the ninja that you are today?

Zach: Yeah. Thanks man. Well, I’ve been doing online marketing for the last six, seven years, and I got my start with this guy named Mike. He’s a trafiic guy. So, way back in the day. After that, I had a Facebook advertising company for a couple of years in San Diego. And last couple of years, I’ve actually been involved as the marketing guy involved with Entreport and Lead Pages. And just about a year ago this week, I started a management and optimization company called Game Changer Profits.

And we’ve worked on, I would say about 35 or so different falls, and hopefully on this call we can talk about just one of those-

Charles: Yeah.

Zach: -which we’ve had some pretty awesome success with. So, yeah.

Charles: Well first of all, Entreport rocks. Lead Pages rock. Tell me about this process. How do you- I’m excited. If you all could see me now you’d think, Charles, you’re shaking. You’re going into a coma. No. It’s really good. It’s really good because a.) this is the kind of stuff that makes a difference from – I’m successful, and I’m owing a small island somewhere in the Caribbean. And I’m aiming for the small island in the Caribbean. So, with that said, tell us about this funnel. I mean, I’m here. It’s just- hey, it’s just intimate – just me and you. Share everything.

Zach: Share everything. Yeah. Well, we’ve been working on this client that’s been in the- I’d say the spiritual health and wellness market. And we’ve been managing their funnels for about a year. And through this four-part, kind of funnel sacking formula I’m going to share with you guys in this call or this interview, it’s the same process that we’ve been able to generate $100 in revenue per email address from their funnel. And so, I know like when we talk a lot about traffic, everyone’s talking about how cheap of traffic can you get? How cheap of, you know, cost per email can you get?

And everyone’s really focused on, you know, traffic’s my problem, right? And we all say, you know, the ameteurs focus on traffic, and the pros focus on conversion. Well, in this- hopefully we can dive in a figure out- break this down and simplify it so that the strategy’s there. And everyone listening can go and implement this sae strategy so they can increase the amount of revenue that they’re making per email address, so that it doesn’t matter whether they’re paying $5 for an opt-in on Facebook, $3, or $8, or $10 – they’re still making a ROI.

Charles: Dude, I’m excited. I am truly excited because it’s seldom that I get to talk to a master. Everybody usually goes, where’s the newest, cheapest traffic? And I’m like, screw that. You’re going to be out of business the minute you can’t afford that traffic. So, keep going. And when you said $100 per lead, correct? Not per buyer, per-

Zach: Yeah. That’s per email address over the life time value. Mean they’re- you know the lifetime value of their customer is north of $600. So, we’re doing a great job of converting those leads into sales. But, you know, one thing that it’s not – I’ll tell you this right off the bat – is, it has nothing to do with any templatized or copy and paste type funnels. You know, like this client came to us with about two or three of those, sitting in their Infusionsoft. And they’re like, well, we’ve got so-and-so’s templatized, fancy name campaign.

And we’ve got this one. And what we really just need you to do is make it work for us. And we really just want you to put in the copy and what to say. And so, I’ll tell you right now. It’s none of those templatized, copy and paste campaigns. And traffic really, you know, was- they thought that was their problem going into it. And the real problem was that they didn’t you know, have a funnel in the first place that was- even like, 100 percent done. There’s all these people out there, including our clients when they come to us, they’ve got something that’s 80 percent of the way done. But, it’s something that’s not even- doesn’t even have the right strategy for their business.

So, the first thing we had to rally dive into- what was the right funnel strategy for their business. Meaning, how’s the business [getting – 05:08]? What assets do they have to work with? What does their existing traffic looking like? What was their current email list? And what was some of the low-hanging fruit in terms of marketing assets that we had to work with?

And they had, you know, they hada decent lookng sales page. They had worked with a guy on their overall webinar presentation and webinar formula who’s really good at like helping them- but they had like those pieces, but they didn’t have like the automation figured out. And they hadn’t had- figured out paid traffic.

And don’t even get me started in terms of you know, their funnel metrics. Like, they were just completely overwhelmed with the data that was- that they didn’t have and the data that we ultimately got clarity on. And how we took a totally, you know, data and metric-driven approach to optimizing their overall funnel. So, that being said, we nailed down their strategy in the first couple of weeks.

And, the- and once we had one funnel, I mean it literally just took about 30, 60 days just to get one funnel- like 100 percent done through strategy, to copy , to automation, to setting up their marketing and funnel dashboard with their metrics. And once they had that done, we knew that that particular funnel was generating about- it was about $24 and some change in revenue per email address. We’re like, this is awesome. Great.

Like, they made, within 90 days of running that webinar, they’d made about a quarter million dollars, and they’re like stoked. And we want to buy more traffic now, right? And so we’re like, it’s pretty sweet. You’re able to buy an email opt-in for $5 or $8, and they’re putting a dollar in and getting anywhere from, you know, $3 to $5 out. And so, that was kind of the first funnel. So when we talk about this funnel [sacking – 07:06] system, and we’re like, how do we grow revenue in this business that’s been stagnant at a couple million in revenue for several years?

Well, we thought, okay. Well, this funnel- we could do everything we came here to do some better split tests on some landing pages; to do some better split tests on some subject lines. But we’re like, you know what? That’s pretty good. I’m stoked- I’m happy with that number. Let’s get started on another funnel. And so, we built them out a whole trip wire and liquidation offer funnel on the back end where, if anybody didn’t buy on that $1000 price point of what they were selling on the webinar, we had a $100 product with a couple of different upsells on the backend.

And the reason- I’m not going to go into too much about what the pricing was, the conversion rate was on each in particular offer, because the point was is that we started with the second funnel. And then that was generated- that funnel was generating- actually, I think I can pull it up here. That funnel was generating close to about $10 in revenue per email opt-in. So, we’re like, sweet. Now we’re generating like, $30 in revenue per email opt-in that comes in.

And we basically, ove the last year, have kept on with that process We added on another free [book – 08:29] plus shipping offer. We added on another webinar funnel on top of it. This particular client- we’re like, 9 funnels deep on this bad boy. It’s like a gauntlet of a [unclear – 08:40] of a funnel, right? And it’s not like this giant funnel that we’ve overcomplicated. It’s just a bunch- it’s like, small, micro runs that we’ve been able to execute within a quick, 60- to 90-day time frame.

And when you add all these- the EPC’s over all these different funnels, and how much revenue we’re generating per email, I’ll send you over a screenshot. And you basically can see that we’re generating a little over $100- $100 and like 80 cents in revenue per email address. And it just makes it insanely easy to scale traffic a year into this particular client’s funnel because we’ve got like just amazing amounts of insight and data on how much revenue they’re making.

Charles: That’s huge. I mean, that is massive. I mean, that is- and you said something that I think most people won’t actually pick up on. It didn’t happen overnight. I mean, it literally took- let’s just say 60 days, per funnel. I think you mention about nine of them, at this point, you’ve stacked together. And honestly, at nine, I can’t see any reason to stop. I mean, and I’m sure they’re probably not. And it’s just really exciting because like you said, they already bought somebody’s pre-done magic unicorn funnels.

Zach: Yeah.

Charles: And while those things, I think, have value to some extent for some people, the problem is every niche is different; every traffic source is different. There’s really not a one size that fits all to anything.

Zach: Totally.

Charles: And I think that when you try to apply a pre-done anything it usually- and honestly, like if you gave me all your funnels, I would probbly not be able to make them work, because everything is different. There’s not a cookie-cutter formula. That’s what people want, but there’s no such thing.

Zach: I do buy pre-baked cookies though. But I will not get a cookie-cutter funnel. That’s for sure.

Charles: Absolutely. Now something interesting – you made a comment about webinars. Are you all running- I mean, what’s your opinion- let’s say if somebody’s starting brand new today. They have, you know, they’ve got to figure everything out. And let’s just say that technology, as it is, they can put together Lead Pages, Click Funnel, really, Office Autopilot or Entreport – however you like to look at it – what would you suggest that people start with?

Zach: Man, I think, you know, we get this question all the time. I think [voice cuts out – 11:12] –the money these days is in the metrics. And whatever is going to get you clarity and control over your funnel metrics the fastest, is what you should be using. And sometimes that’s not easy to do if you’re using, I mean, Infusionsoft or Entreport. And a lot of these tools, they really only get you a partial view of your overall marketing funnel’s performance.

But there’s also something to be said for, just general speed of execution – getting out there and figure out your funnel metrics fast. I can’t tell you how many times when clients come to us. Not only do they have these cookie-cutter funnels, but they have something that they think is done but they don’t know if it’s good or not.

Like, and so, we’ve had people of like- wow! I have this totally complete funnel. We’re like, yeah man. That’s really only generating about $1 I revenue per email address, and you’re in the Internet marketing niche, or you’re in the financial niche. You’re going to have to do some work on your funnel. And you know, we’ll have to think through your pricing, and your offers, and everything. And so, that’s where really thinking through what we call an intelligent sales funnel strategy that’s specific to their overall business.

Charles: You’ll laugh at this, Zach. You’ll absolutely laugh. When you were telking me that I was about to wet my pants, laughing so hard. And I know this is not what people want to hear, but I’m going to be honest with you. I would, if you asked me to go into the Internet marketing niche, I would turn, rip off my shirt, and run the other way. I think of any niche, just froma pure, saturation standpoint, I think it’s just- I would not want to be in it; don’t want to be in it; do not want those leads.

Unfortunately, what we’ve found from the Internet- and I’m talking hardcore Internet marketers, not somebody using the Internet marketing, online marketing as a tool for their business, but people who only sell how to make money online – I think they’re really beginning to feel the crunch of, traffic sources are drying up for them.

Zach: Yeah.

Charles: I think the cost per lead is- I know for a fact is going up. It’s getting harder to make any of that work. I truly- and I’m going to just tell you this. I don’t think that that user has the lifetime value, because they burn out so fast.

Zach: Yeah.

Charles: And that’s just my take on it – just absolutely my take on it.

Zach: Yeah. Tell me how you really feel.

Charles: It’s going to be bad.

Zach: Well and the fact is that right now, if yo’re doing online marketing, you’re overwhelmed with just the amount of data, the tols, the technology, and you’re really underwhelmed with the amount of actionable insights, or metrics that you have available to you about on how your funnel is performing. Right? And so, when I started Game Changers, I didn’t want to be a funnel-building company.

There are so many Infusionsoft pewople out there, funnel experts that were like, building funnels, and they’d be like kay great. It’s done. And you know, now, go work with it. And I think that there’s so many A-player business owners that are out there doing $1M, $2M a year. They’re either stagnant, or they don’t have time to manage their funnel. And so they end up hiring someone that’s going to build it. And they turn it over to them. But then they have nobody to hand it over to once they’re done.

And so we have all these like, clients who we work with that have these templatized campaigns, but not a CEO that has time to make it all work. So, when we work with our clients, we’re managing it, kind of ongoing, month-to-month basis, optimizing it. And [unclear – 15:08] is working on a new funnel. And we’re implementing this funnel-stacking, methodology to conversions. And the effects that it’s having in terms of increasing the amount of revenue that’s being generated per email address on the funnel is amazing, and outperforming in, you know, any one maybe, in particular split test, might have been able to do.

Charles: Oh, I think you’ve hit it right on the money. Most people think a single split test on a single page is all they need. It’s kind of like you’ve just cut into- you took a chainsaw, cut out the middle of your bed, and you’re like, well, you know, I just wanted to do one thing. You know, that one thing isn’t enough to fix it. You really have to look from the entire funnel.

I mean- and I’m excited to hear that because so many people think all it takes is- and I’m not downing anybody’s product, by any stretch of the imagination. So, guys, save me the hate email. You can’t take a strategy that you’ve heard somebody else sell you and apply it. I mean, you made a comment about using a trip wire and then, you made a comment that you made $100- $100 product.

I don’t know if that trip wire is the $100 product, if it’s something else that leads to the $100 product. Don’t know. But I think the big issue is people often say, well, such and such has got a $29 product, and a $7 product. And then they copy it.

Zach: Oh yeah.

Charles: And the cost of traffic is different for everybody.

Zach: Yeah. I mean, I have funnels now that we’ve been building for 90 days. They’re generating great ROI. And they’re like, but Zach, I don’t have a low price point ticket offer. I don’t have my- a liquidation offer. I’m like, well, great. Like, maybe that might subsidize 20 percent of your trafic, or 50 percent of your traffic. But you’re already making like, putting a dollar in, you’re getting $5 out. I’m not dissing trip wires or liquidation offers by any means.

But I’m just sayng like, if it’s for a particular type of business, and I typically see if you’re spending north of you know, 20, 30 grand a month on Ad Spend, yeah. Like, you might as well invest in like, a little trip wire liquidation-type offer and save your- and subsidize 50 percent of your traffic costs. That’s going to be amazing in terms of your ROI.

But somebody who’s just getting into paid advertising, you know, it’s probably not the first thing that you need to do.

Charles: Can I get a double Amen on that? We need a double Amen. There’s so many people I see every day. Right now, somebody’s probably throwing the- I see the phone being thrown across the parking lot with your name, and my name, and a few adjectives that we can’t repeat. But I see so many people who, basically get the concept- I’ve got a free DVD, and an upsell. And it’s not working on Facebook, or Adwords, or MSN. And like the end of like, day two, they’re not breaking even – nowhere remotely close to being breaking even, and it’s al just- and you just said it.

You can do that, but, you know, let’s face it. I can’t make a $7 product break even under any stretch of the imagination. I can’t. I can’t. At one time I could. I could do it. One time it was like- you could also put up Google ads and everything worked. But, I think with the cst of traffic today, I think- and it’s not that- actually, you can still get in with a little bit of money. And if you’re a small player, if you can test and just keep refining it until it works.

It may take you a long time, but you can do that. But I think that we’re at a point where, to be able to throw something against the wall to see what works, it doesn’t work anymore. I simply don’t think-

Zach: And most people- most business owners- they don’t know what they don’t know. They don’t know what works, right? And wat they- the bottom line is they need a professional approach to building, managing, and optimizing their funnel, and more importantly, their funnel metrics. And the idea of you know, having a weekly or biweekly marketing call with your team or, whoever’s kind of managing your funnel where, it’s like, this is how much revenue you’re generating per click; or how much revenue you’re generating per email opt-in.

Here’s what your average order value is Here’s what your lead to sell conversion rate is. And here are the tactics and the funels that we need to be building to double those or triple those to accelarate your revenue growth rate. And if people would kind of switch their focus from maybe the tactics, right, that are all involved in building a funnel, but they would take more of a data driven approach. And who knows? Whether you’re just using like, doing it the old school way or whatever, it’s just having a spreadsheet in your marketing process that you’re looking at this marketing spreadsheet dashboard on a weekly basis.

And making smart, intelligent funnel decisions off of that. Or, you have, you know, a marketing funnel, dashboard-type solution that we provde to our clients that’s telling you all these metrics on a daily and weekly basis, so that it’s not really guess work as to what levers you need to be pulling to have clarity and control over that profit and revenue-generating process in your business.

Charles: And I think that’s brilliant. Because I’m going to just tell you with a spreadsheet, it’s manual It literally is- you’re the one plugging in the number and all it does is- and I’ve done this before. One time I like, plugged in the number wrong. And I was like- I was so excited. I’m like, my gosh! I should be able to buy like ten times as much trafiic. This is great. But in real life, it didn’t work that way. What’s wrong? But you know, all it takes is one number off anywhere, or a formula, or a cell being off – and you know, you’re literally just spending an entire day sitting down, calculating everything out. And it’s just-

Zach: It’s awful

Charles: – and it’s just, you know, unless you just love looking at Excel formulas, it’s not the way to go. It’s simply, you know, unless you love pivot tables and can do that kind of stuff, it’s not the way to go. Now, with that said, just looking at this, you know, creating a funnel, a.) we’ve just made- right now, a lot of people are upset, because the $7 funnel doesn’t work. We’ve all said it. You’ve all known it. You’re just finally admitting it. you know, there’s a place for that funnel.

That funnel is, basically, for us, it’s with email. We have tried to use the free DVD funnel up front. It’s not worth it. For us, we seem to do better bringing people into a webinar, just so we can get higher conversion rates. I won’t even say higher conversion rates. The conversion rates are lower than a $7 sale. But our earnings are enough that we can actually start taking a [unclear – 22:23] and say, okay. I didn’t break even. But at least I am, you know, I’m moving up the mountain.

Zach: So, what you’re saying there Charles, just so I can clarify what- for everybody, is that conversion rates are not always the most imortant thing. Revenue is the- and revenue groth is the golden metric for the health and success of your business. And I’ll take lower conversion rates, but more revenue, all- not all day long, but for most businesses, I would do that. Right?

Charles: Yes.

Zach: In some cases, you might have a strategic strategy where a customer acquisition is part of the strategic direction and you do need to do that. But, I typically always optimizing for revenue, not necessarily higher conversions. And sometimes, higher conversion rates are a path to higher revenues, don’t get me wrong. But there are multiple ways to the same result.

Charles: Oh absolutely. And I think one of the big things that people often don’t look at because they’re looking at just a small micro-segment of the funnels-

Zach: Sure

Charles: -if you’re stacking- let’s just say you’ve got four funnels. So, let’s just- to make it simple, each funnel lasts a week. First funnel – okay, maybe you’re 25, 30 percent there, breaking even. Maybe on week two, and maybe you’re getting to 40, maybe 50. Week three, maybe you’re at 60, 70. Week four, maybe you’re 80, 90, 100, or whatever the case may be.

You know, your conversion rates are [irrelevant – 23:59]. At the end of week four, you could’ve had like a 20 percent conversion on a $7 product all the way through, every week. You know, if the $7 product was the Holy Grail of business, that’s the only thing people would have. Truth of the matter is, it’s not. I mean, quite often, for us, when we pull out a $7 product, it’s only to show the market that we have relevance to them.

Zach: Yeah. And the reality is today, the money today is in the metrics, right? The money, you know, used to be in the follow up right, when you were like, cold calling people and just like dialing for dollars, right? Then the money was in the list when you could just hammer down a dozen different affiliate offers to the same list.

Charles: Yep.

Zach: But now, if you go and you copy and paste someone elses’ funnel, you don’t know the metrics behind that funnel. And even though, if it was generating you x-amount of dollars in revenus per email address, and you copied it from any, you know, funnel guru, you wouldn’t necessarily know what your traffic costs could be, and you wouldn’t necesarily know what to do with it.

And so, the fact that you have to have a passion for your business numbers and your funnel metrics. And if you know all those metris, you can invest in traffic more confidently and more consistently. And so, one thing that I get a lot when I share this story of how we’re doing this for a client is people just flat-out don’t believe us, you know? Like, you’re lying I don’t believe it.

And one thing that I want to do is, you know, we have this new webinar presentation workshop that we’re coming out with in the month of October. And we’re actually just- we’ve got a sign off from the client, where we just open up the kimono, and walk through, and share screen shots on every part of this campaign.

And we’re going to start doing this in the month of October, where you can GameChangeYourProcess.com, and register for our weekly, live webinar, where we walk you through the funnel stacking formula, and how we are generating 100-plus dollars in revenue per email address. And how, people can implement that same process and strategy in their own business.

And then, you know, see the screen shots, see the proof. And just dive into it for an hour, so you can learn it. I mean that’s- if somebody told me, you know, two years ago, how to generate $100 in revenue per email, I would’ve been like, well one, what is revenue per email and why is that important? And then, you know, how do I know that’s even good?

And now, I would’ve jumped all over that, had somebody kind of show me the path. So, I encourage everybody to check that out. And that’s- that’ll be Russ [unclear – 27:05]. He’s our marketing chief funnel architect who does that overall presentation and training. I think, it’s really for someody who’s already approaching seven-figures, and really has no idea what their, you know, marketing [funnel – 27:20] metrics are.

Charles: Most people, honestly, don’t. And I know that’s not what people want to hear, but most people are just like, I made profit. I didn’t. I mean, and the concept of- and I’ll tell you, as we’re maturing online, the smarter businesses that are healthier, that have more cash flow are able to go negative, longer. And if you look at that and you try to copy that model-

Another example, when you mentioned about getting these pre-done funnels, I think one of the biggest issues that people don’t look at- super guru xy, he comes out, and he does a product. And there’s a celebrity status around that person. So, he’s going to be able to sellit. If he had skull and crossbones on the paper- people would buy it.

Zach: Right.

Charles: Right. You know, Bob needs some money. Quick, Janet. Get the PayPal account. Let’s send a donation. That’s the kind- but when you try it, and you’re not like the well-known super, you know, mega guru expert, your numbers are completely different.

Zach: Yeah.

Charles: You know, and then, like you said, every traffic source is differerent; every niche, every key words, it- just because somebody makes $13 per lead doesn’t mean you can’t. And I think that’s where so many people- it’s just- it’s not a copy and paste scenario. Literally, in my mind, a funnel has to be built for the person, for their strength, you know, for their image – everything about them, it has to be focused on that.

Zach: Yeah. Totally. Yeah. I mean, that’s exactly, you know, that’s exactly what Game Changers does. That’s exactly what we do when we take on a cliet is, you know, map it all out so that it’s intelligent for their business, right?

Charles: Absolutely.

Zach: And so yeah. I encourage everybody to just go to Game Changer Profits and check out the webinar just so you can check out some screen shots and the overall case study. It’s, by far, one of the most- the proudest, or the best funnel- or, the best funnel I’m most proud of, that we’ve worked on this year. So-

Charles: And with that, make sure you do the Tweet to get the- they’ve got a seven-figure funnel map. Make sure you do a Tweet just to get that. I’m going to tell you guys. I’m over at the site now. It looks good. It looks clean. I’ve signed up for the webinar. I wish it was like an auto-webinar that would play like, right now.

Zach: I bet you do.

Charles: But, with that said, guys head over to- just go to Game Changers. It’s the easiest way for me to put it, is to head over to GameChangerProfits.com. It’ll be in the show notes, so you know, just swipe the image of the Media Buyer logo, and we’ll head over there together. Make sure you opt-in guys. I’m just going to tell you this.

Getting- if I had to say anything in business, which- and I will truly say this is far more important than traffic, at the end of the day, you can buy all the trafiic you want, and have all the credit card bills you want, but if you don’t have an intelligent funnel to handle it, to manage it, and the metrics to be able to look at it and say, did it work? Did it not work? It’s all just kind of a pie-in-the-sky dream.

Zach: Yep.

Charles: you know, and I’ll tell you this. Four, five years ago, it was like, so easy to make money. I mean, it’s literally it’s like- yeah, fell off the- you know, ten years ago, it was super easy to make money.

Zach: Right.

Charles: Sixteen years ago, it was like, I can’t believe people are giving me money for this. It’s really gotten a lot tougher. I mean, I will tell you hands down, and I’ve had some utterly major failures. A few things have worked successfully. And a few things have blown up- not worked. But the things that have worked, really came down to having a funnel, and literally just putting funnel after funnel after funnel after funnel and making it automated.

Because- and Zach, what do you feel about this? If somebody has no funnel. Somebody comes into the- they get an opt-in, then they’re mailing- every day they’re mailing something different for the next 60, 90 days. I mean, I think that says it all. You know, there was a time, it was really a big thing, where people were l like, oh, you don’t need auto-responders. All you need to do is send daily broadcasts of whatever is happening in your life.

Zach: Right.

Charles: Well, I think that’s really cool, and it’s nice, and maybe after they get through your sequence, you can’t split test it. Every day that went by was a day that you can’t measure, monitor, or split test. It’s like every day- and it works if you’re in some place where traffic is cheap, plentiful, and there’s no competition.

But, in today’s marketplace, I mean, I truly believe if you don’t have funnels, with an “s”, in place, you’re really just- you’re going off the deep end. And you just don’t know it yet. You’re literally driving- it’s like driving on an icy road at night, blindfolded. It may look great in Fifty Shades of Grey, but it doesn’t work on your wallet. You know? It’s going to be a disaster.

Zach: Well, Charles, man, I really appreciate you having me on. This has been a lot of fun. You’re analogies are- you’re clearly a talented marketer because any talented marketer tells great stories and has great analogies. So, thanks for, you know, blocking off [unclear – 32:31] like, 30 minutes just to share this case study with your audience and just to, you know, be asking some nice, intelligent questions. Like, I love conversations like this. So, thank you.

Charles: I appreciate it. Guys, I’m going to go ahead and get this in the show notes. And Zach, thank you so much. I really appreciate it and let’s get together again.

To learn more about Zach Johnson visit http://www.gamechangerprofits.comhttp://www.gamechangerprofits.com

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About the Author

Charles is a walking, talking, networking blend of credibility and know-how. Raised in a working class family, he combined a tenacious work ethic and keen sense of curiosity to usher him over one hurdle after another.